Supporting The Troops And Their Families How?
So much for supporting the troops and their families.
The Pentagon admits it waited nine months before telling the families of 2 U.S. soldiers, that their loved ones were killed by Iraqi troops.
Army Spc. Patrick R. McCaffrey and 2nd Lt. Andre D. Tyson were shot by Iraqi civil defense officers. Their families were just notified how how they died.
McCaffrey's mother Nadia says that Iraqi forces training with our American soldiers had fired on them twice before the incident that killed her son. She says her son had informed his superiors.
Meanwhile, Tyson's grandmother says "They never tell the family the truth. You know how politics is."
This is a matter of common decency. The family members of soldiers killed in combat deserve to know the truth (and expeditiously so) about how their loved one died.
They don't deserve to be strung along, and kept waiting for the truth.
But this Pentagon knows it has an unpopular war on its hands, and they can't go out there and make the case that everything is coming up roses in Iraq when the very people that we are training to take control of their country, are turning on our troops.
Pentagon waited months to tell families 2 soldiers killed by Iraqis
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but then again you think a barking dog is torture. Compare/contrast to what was done to our men and let's hear your outrage against our enemy.
According to MSM reports, the two young American soldiers captured were ‘just’ beaten and tortured. I think you’ll agree that “beaten and tortured” doesn’t begin to describe what really happened to them. They were tortured, beaten, their arms contorted, their testicles cut off, their penises cut off and stuffed in their mouths, their eyes gouged out, their hearts cut out and then they were beheaded.
Comment by you need educated or medicated— 2006/06/23 @ 04:07 PM — (Reply)
Our American troops have no business torturing Iraqis. Because as Sen. John McCain has said, torture is ineffective as an intelligence-gathering tool.
If someone is being tortured, they are just going to tell their torturers what they think they want to hear. They will tell them anything to make the pain stop. So it is not an effective intelligence gathering tool.
Likewise, it is disgusting and inhumane that our soldiers, as well as civilians like Mr. Nick Berg, have been tortured, beheaded, etc.
But you cannot excape this fact: In Iraq, our soldiers have become the target. Our soldiers have even become the target of the Iraqi troops that they are training.
And do you know why? Because we are occupiers. The Iraqi people want their country back.
This is what happens when you go to war without an exit strategy and a plan to win the peace.
Comment by SMillard— 2006/06/23 @ 05:20 PM — (Reply)
So you think the Iraqi's were better off with Saddam? and the mass graves?
if there is enough blame on both sides where are your posts holding the enemy accountable? That's what I thought. YOu should be ashamed of yourself.
Just what is the plan from the leftists? Besides cutting and running?
Comment by you need educating— 2006/06/23 @ 06:19 PM — (Reply)
It seems to me that YOU are the one who needs some educating. Because if you were educated, you would know that polls have shown that many Iraqis have said they were better under Sadaam. Iraqi women have said they were better under Sadaam.
http://www.albionmonitor.com/0605a/iraqwomenconditions.html
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/05/24/earlyshow/main1649689.shtml
http://newstandardnews.net/content/?items=1816
http://www.haleakalatimes.com/news/story1986.aspx
Most importantly, though, just think about the fact that we are now essentially comparing ourselves to Sadaam Hussein, where our defense is "well what we did at Abu Ghariab was bad, but Saddam was worse."
Can you even read? Because I clearly said that no one had the morale high ground on torture. I clearly said both sides were wrong: the American troops who have tortured are wrong, and those who have tortured our troops and beheaded civilians like Nick Berg are wrong as well.
I clearly said that in my previous post. So shame on YOU.
Comment by SMillard— 2006/06/23 @ 06:32 PM — (Reply)
Here's my answer to your "moral equivalency". Unlike our troops who are being held accountable for their actions the jihadists are not. So shame on you for not doing that.
Here’s a stunning headline for you: “Muslims and West locked in culture of misunderstanding”. Apparently, this is news! I suppose I should be glad that it even appears in MSM. Better ‘a day late and a dollar short’, then not at all?
It seems to me that there is some sort of implied criticism of both camps within the article, a suggestion that somehow “the West” is just as guilty of blind intolerance, bias and ignorance as the Muslims world, that “we” are somehow just as much to blame.
The article, in and of itself, is not really much to go on about, but it does not exist in isolation. The past few weeks, our media has been full of bleating Muslims. Their persistent cry of “we are the misunderstood” has to be met head-on, to counter the effect it has on the uninformed (this applies to you Progressive Minds). Islam knows all too well how to play on sensitivity to criticisms and our over-hyped sense of “a fair go”. A fair go for Islam, is no go for anyone else.
You should re-examine and attempt to verbalise the reasons why people are “locked in (a) culture of misunderstanding”.
Perhaps the “comments” could be used to post reasons why “we” oppose Islam? Anyway, here’s my potted “reasons for opposing Islam.” - a work in progress.
9/11, and the plethora of Muslim savagery we have been witness to since, provides more than enough reason for a sane person to treat Islam warily. If nothing else, these acts have demanded caution from the West. Furthermore, they have demanded an exacting, precise scrutiny of the claims of Islam.
I believe these terrorist activities demonstrate Islam’s ideological preference for using brute force to influence the world. I believe those terrorist actions stand evocatively, and sufficient in and of themselves, to damn Islam for all time. However, in a world of moral equivalence, mere atrocities are, apparently, not enough.
Islam demanded to be examined. As a Christian I find it very uncomfortable to admit that the Sunna, Haddiths and the Koran have had more thrall over me, these past 6 years, than the Gospels and the sum of the Bible. It is, however, the truth.
I am opposed to Islam because it is base. It elevates the base instincts and sanctifies the base in man. It does not edify. It glories in forcing man to behave at his most rudimentary. It demands this of its adherents.
Islam is anti-human. Its treatment of women, Christians and Jews speaks for itself. That treatment finds its prime motivation in the words of its Holy canon. There is no excuse. Islam advocates oppression, coercion and murder. More, Islam is anti-human in its treatment of its adherents. The Islamic worlds lack of achievement, appalling living standards, basic lack of hygiene and health care, dysfunctional, failed education and economic systems can all be laid directly at the feet of the Prophet.
Islam is anti-intellectual. It will not tolerate examination. It is incapable of self-criticism and reform. Islam has become singularly noticeable for it’s lack of achievement in any area that elevates the lot of mankind. The shadow of Islam falls across the most poverty struck, interbred, feudal societies that remain on this earth. It is Islam that retards its people, forcing the cruelest fates upon its own people.
Islam cannot accept criticism or admit failures, unlike the Judeo-Christian world which has examined itself and reframed itself since its inception. As such, Islams followers are caught in ever-increasing cycles of externalized blame. Islam points its finger at everything but itself. In that respect, it resembles a petulant, jealous, envious, covetous child, who squalls and screams at every advantage it sees others having, but will not look at itself and see the trip-wires contained within its ideology, that stand between the Muslim and his desires. As such, Islam has made modernity a crushing burden, a shameful accusation, for its people.
Islam is untrustworthy. It’s word cannot be taken. No thinking adult, charged with familial and societal responsibilities, could place any trust in the statements of a Muslim. A religion that enshrines concepts such as ‘taqiya’ and ‘kitman’, which encourages treachery and then glories in its results, has no place in any modern dialogue. To turn your back on a Muslim is to invite the knife. It is not sufficient for Muslim’s to say this is unrepresentational. If 1% of Islam adheres to these odious behaviours, it is more than enough to place Islam outside civilised discourse.We have a massive historical frame of reference to show that 1% is a gross underestimation of how many Muslim accept this tent of deceit.
There is so much more I could say, but I want to be brief. Am I “locked in” to mistrust of Islam? Absolutely, but I am certain of my research and its conclusions. I am just as convinced that all people capable of dispassionate thought will have also examined Islam, and found it as wanting as I have.
There is no better summation than this, from Churchill:
”How dreadful are the curses which Mohammedanism lays on its votaries! Besides the fanatical frenzy, which is as dangerous in a man as hydrophobia in a dog, there is this fearful fatalistic apathy. The effects are apparent in many countries. Improvident habits, slovenly systems of agriculture, sluggish methods of commerce, and insecurity of property exist wherever the followers of the Prophet rule or live. A degraded sensualism deprives this life of its grace and refinement; the next of its dignity and sanctity. The fact that in Mohammedan law every woman must belong to some man as his absolute property, either as a child, a wife, or a concubine, must delay the final extinction of slavery until the faith of Islam has ceased to be a great power among men.
Individual Moslems may show splendid qualities — but the influence of the religion paralyses the social development of those who follow it. No stronger retrograde force exists in the world. Far from being moribund, Mohammedanism is a militant and proselytizing faith. It has already spread throughout Central Africa, raising fearless warriors at every step; and were it not that Christianity is sheltered in the strong arms of science, the science against which it had vainly struggled, the civilisation of modern Europe might fall, as fell the civilisation of ancient Rome.”
Your poor attempt at moral equivalency falls flat when the actions or our enemey are compared to the transparency of our military. I'll wipe your spit off their graves.
Comment by you need educating— 2006/06/24 @ 11:10 AM — (Reply)
But obviously you chose to ignore those comments in order to make whatever arugment it is you are trying to make. I look forward to good debates on here, but unfortunately people like you make that impossible when you misrepresent my comments. In this case, you choose to ignore what I said. SHAME ON YOU.
Also, you seem to be attacking the entire religion of Islam.
Islam, on a whole is a peaceful religion. Why do you think they greet you with "Salaam alaykum" which means "peace be with you."
Unfortunately, their religion is being hijacked by these extremist wahhabists.
Comment by SMillard— 2006/06/24 @ 11:23 AM — (Reply)
obviously you didn't read what I said and ad hominem attacks are sign of a weak argument. I do not hate Muslims but I hate the fact that they are not held accountable. Perhaps you should take a reading comprehension course or better yet Ms. Manners should do the trick, it's obvious your personal attacks are about as shallow as your arguments. You are so blinded by your political ideology. Which part of these verses are peaceful:
Qur’an 5:51: “O you who believe! Do not take the Jews and the Christians for friends; they are friends of each other…”
Qur’an 9:5: “So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captives and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush.”
Qur’an 48:29: “Muhammad is God’s apostle. Those who follow him are ruthless to the unbelievers but merciful to one another.”
Qur’an 4:34: “Men have authority over women because God has made the one superior to the other….Good women are obedient. As for those from whom you fear disobedience, admonish them and send them to beds apart and beat them.”
Comment by you need educating— 2006/06/24 @ 11:33 AM — (Reply)
I just wonder when was the last time you heard of this happening at Gitmo?
I think you’ll agree that “beaten and tortured” doesn’t begin to describe what really happened to the two soldiers recently killed. They were tortured, beaten, their arms contorted, their testicles cut off, their penises cut off and stuffed in their mouths, their eyes gouged out, their hearts cut out and then they were beheaded.
Just wondered if you think barking dogs or a pyramid of naked bodies comes close to this? Not to mention the three square meals a day, the sensitivity to religious piety and a program that has released these thugs back in to the fight?
Our boys are being held accountable. Those who perpetrated the abuses at Abu Ghraib have been punished. When will you hold the enemy just as accountable. Anyone that draws a moral equivalency is an idiot.
Comment by you need educating— 2006/06/24 @ 11:40 AM — (Reply)
You are essentially saying that what we did at Abu Gharib may have been bad, but what they have done to us since then is worse.
You are comparing the sexual abuse, water boarding, etc that happened at Abu Gharib, to the beheading of our soldiers.
It's like a child saying 'I know I'm bad but what are you?'
I think it's all sick. None of it is right.
You, on the other hand, want to start comparing sins.
I say a sin is a sin.
Comment by SMillard— 2006/06/24 @ 12:28 PM — (Reply)
The original subject of this post was about the fact that the military waited 9 months to tell 2 families of soliders, that their loved ones had been murdered by Iraqi troops.
And I was making the following points:
1. That our troops have now become the target of the very Iraqi troops they hare helping to train
2. The military is not helping or supporting the families, when they wait 9 months to tell them the truth about how their loved one was killed in Iraq.
And the very first comment made here, starts talking about our torture vs. their torture.
No discussion at all from you intellecutally lazy, PNAC loving neo-cons about the fact that our troops are now the target in a civil war. And they are the target of the very people we said we wanted to liberate.
And no comment from you, about how the military treats the families of fallen soldiers.
That was the original issue at hand here.
If you want to continue commenting on this blog, then comment on the issue at hand.
Comment by SMillard— 2006/06/24 @ 12:45 PM — (Reply)
A sin may be a sin but the consequences are far different. How many Abu Ghraib prisoners were killed with a barking dog? duh! the issue was supporting the troops and this is relevant to that. Because on the one hand you want to hold them to a standard you are not willing to hold our enemies too but on the other hand you will not make a "post" exhibiting their dedication and bravery. Duh!
Comment by you need educating— 2006/06/25 @ 09:36 AM — (Reply)
and yes what they did to our soldiers was worse. Moral equivalency means making them the same and I am saying they are not the same. Why do you hate America so much?
Comment by — 2006/06/25 @ 09:37 AM — (Reply)
And obviously I do not hate my country. I love my country, and because I do, I think it should always strive to the highest ideals and standards.
I hate the fact that because the Bush Crime Team has chosen to put itself above the law, we no longer have the moral standing in the international community that we once did.
And again, I see you have chose to ignore the original subject of my post, which, in case you didn't notice, was the fact that, for 9 months, the military withheld information from 2 families, on how their loved ones really died in Iraq.
In true neo-con fashion, you have chose to ignore the original issue at hand here.
But I expect nothing less from an uneducated, intellecutally lazy, PNAC-loving ne-con with blind loyalty to George W. Bush.
Comment by SMillard— 2006/06/25 @ 09:58 AM — (Reply)
How do you feel about the beheading of the four Russians at the hands of the terrorists. Did they DESERVE it like you implied the Americans did?
Comment by Baffled— 2006/06/25 @ 10:52 AM — (Reply)
OF COURSE what happened to the Russians is inexcusable.
However, you will NOT continue to divert from the original subject of my post.
How do you feel about the military waiting 9 months to tell families the truth about how their loved ones died?
Do you or do you not feel the familis of these murdered soldiers deserved better?
Comment by SMillard— 2006/06/25 @ 11:02 AM — (Reply)
NOT ONE TIME have I either implied or stated outright that our troops deserve what is happening to them. In fact, I have said the opposite.
It's clear you are not interesting in real debate.
Comment by SMillard— 2006/06/25 @ 11:06 AM — (Reply)
I am also wondering what elementary school we went into and killed 300+ people in? Remember Beslan? It's clear to me you are woefully ignorant when it comes to our enemy.
Comment by you need educating— 2006/06/26 @ 12:08 AM — (Reply)
the lions of jihad and I thank you once again
Comment by fariq ali musad— 2006/06/28 @ 12:23 AM — (Reply)
What is Fariq talking about anyway?
Comment by Baffled— 2006/06/28 @ 06:39 PM — (Reply)
Comment by SMillard— 2006/06/28 @ 06:49 PM — (Reply)